This episode, we are joined by Not That Kind of Doctor, a fellow podcast!
We talk about what fear means in terms of psychology and some spooky stuff! Find them here: https://x.com/nopenotthatkind?s=21&t=NW-Se8Jg_Ep7XkrFIbpMow on Twxtter .
We were very lucky to have them on the show and talk about fear and spooky stuff with us.
https://linktr.ee/DrinksandThings
We also have a buymeacoffee! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/drinksnthings
Music in intro/outro by Skilsel on Pixabay
This episode, we are joined by Not That Kind of Doctor, a fellow podcast!
We talk about what fear means in terms of psychology and some spooky stuff! Find them here: https://x.com/nopenotthatkind?s=21&t=NW-Se8Jg_Ep7XkrFIbpMow on Twxtter .
We were very lucky to have them on the show and talk about fear and spooky stuff with us.
https://linktr.ee/DrinksandThings
We also have a buymeacoffee! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/drinksnthings
Music in intro/outro by Skilsel on Pixabay
Hello and welcome to. I don't even remember what number we're on.
Speaker 2:We didn't check, did we no?
Speaker 1:Episode 36, I think.
Speaker 2:Episode 36.
Speaker 1:We'll just call it Episode 36. If it's not 36, then I'm sorry. I'm Leisha.
Speaker 2:I'm Carver.
Speaker 1:What are you drinking, Carver?
Speaker 2:I just got whiskey and coke here, leisha, what are you drinking?
Speaker 1:I am drinking a white claw seltzer and with us we have Al from. Nope, not that kind of doctor.
Speaker 3:Hello, so excited to join you guys. We finally made it happen.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:We've been talking about doing this for months, Jeez months, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just, we're like two ships passing in the night. It just one thing after another. We're just like hey, this weekend works for us, does it work for you? And? Then they're like no, and then we're like okay. And then they're like, hey, does this weekend work for you? And we're like no, we have to go to a wedding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, that's the thing, life always comes up and we were persistent and we made it happen, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Are you drinking anything?
Speaker 3:Yes, so I don't usually drink on my podcast, but in honor of your guys' podcast I made a little margarita and a wine glass.
Speaker 1:Ooh, a little margarita.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:I'm drinking like a tropical pomelo smash.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we grabbed the fancy ones this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know how I feel about them. One of them's like minty and it's gross.
Speaker 3:Have you guys tried the supercharged ones?
Speaker 1:No, you're in the, you're in the States, right I'm?
Speaker 3:in the States.
Speaker 1:I don't want to give exactly where, oh yeah, no, that's fine, because I was just going to say that, like, sometimes it takes like six months for things like that to reach Canada.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we haven't even seen those ones yet.
Speaker 3:Oh well, and maybe like four months you might.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would be exciting. So we're going to kick things off by saying what has happened for us in the last couple of weeks. So I am no longer going to school in November, unfortunately, as it is November and I have not started school and hopefully going back in January, it's just been a lot of bureaucracy that has kind of fucked up the whole process, but other than that, not a whole lot has happened.
Speaker 2:I don't know I had to go to Cam Loops a couple of times.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we had to go to Cam Loops.
Speaker 2:I had to save my brother.
Speaker 3:I went to Cam Loops when I was a little kid and I did mountain biking there and it's like one of my favorite family vacations and that's so wild. I just mentioned that, but like it's a memory for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, carver's brother lives in Cam Loops.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my brother lives there. He was having trouble with his truck and he asked me to come and help him out. So I went and I helped him out.
Speaker 3:That was very sweet of you.
Speaker 2:I don't usually like doing that, because we have to travel like eight hours to get there and if I can't get what he needs, well, it's too bad yeah.
Speaker 1:But it worked out. Everything worked out this time, except for the power got turned off by accident because somebody hit like a power pole and our nephews were like well, tell us ghost stories. And then they were like scared to go to bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they got scared.
Speaker 3:Good Well, it sounds like you guys got some good ones, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:We didn't even do like. All I did was read the Haunted Canada book.
Speaker 3:With the Haunted Canada book.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like a widespread thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in Canada we have it's by Schoolastic, it's Haunted Canada series. You don't have one here do you? No, they're downstairs.
Speaker 2:Oh, I could have showed you the color.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but they they're like a widespread. There's like 12 or 13 of them, like 12 or 13 volumes of them.
Speaker 2:They're very cool. They've been making them since we were really young.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the first one came out when I was like seven.
Speaker 2:I remember ordering them out of the, out of the book orders. We had these book orders that we do and geez, I think even when I was in elementary school I was ordering them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um. So on that topic, what are we talking about? This episode, gents?
Speaker 2:Well, well since we started the same line. Since you are a certified expert. I would say, well, hopefully. On psychology, we're talking about the psychology of fear.
Speaker 3:Very exciting. I'm happy to dive deep into it. Oh yeah, so you guys were talking about like updates in the last couple of weeks. One of my updates, if you want to know, I just got licensed as a mental health professional in my state, so it's a very exciting moment. Yeah, so officially I can sign my own notes now.
Speaker 1:Congratulations. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:That's huge, thank you. It's a. It's a very cool big moment and then I'm just very excited about it. So you are talking to a licensed mental health professional about the psychology.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, that's even better. Like we're not licensed professionals, I mean yes, but I'm not.
Speaker 2:I am, but not for, not for people's mind.
Speaker 1:He's a truck doctor.
Speaker 3:That's. You know, that's a really, really important thing and something that I would be a bang my head against the engine trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1:The same. So grab a drink and sit with us a while.
Speaker 2:This is going to be a while.
Speaker 1:We don't really say that as often as we should. I just forget about it. We just have so many nuanced things that I just like forget about when we're doing episodes. So one of the questions that we had we have like a little list of questions.
Speaker 3:Oh, very exciting.
Speaker 1:Why is like movies versus video games? Do you know, like if there's like a difference in between the fear that happens from like movies to video games? Because I found like I'm more like panicky during video games than I am during like movies.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think that that really comes from people's what's called predisposition to fear, and so it really depends on, like, what your ancestors, like, really were afraid of and how that has passed out through the generations. So every single person has their own vulnerabilities to different types of fear. So for some people, the classic jump scare out of movies is something that is a go to and hits a lot of like biological levels as to why people will jump. Because, like, we don't like unexpected things, so when something jumped out at you, you will have a natural reaction to it, usually, right, yeah, so that's why a lot of times movies, especially in the horror genre, we use a lot of jump scare stuff.
Speaker 3:In terms of video games, you're using a different kind of system in your mind, so when you're just watching something, it's more of a passive reception of whatever is happening and it really depends on your level of attention, right, so you may not be as attentive to movies versus when you're playing a video game. You're much more engaged with the material because you are using your fingers, you're integrating your hand-eye coordination, you're attentive to all the things that are around that you're trying to understand and, because of that, every little bit in that video game is now more intense and more scary than, rather than, the passivity of a movie for you.
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense, because so on our Twitch channel we did some spooky games and then we had to go to Kamloops, so we kind of didn't get through the both of them like we wanted, but we played layers of fear and I don't know if you know what layers of fear is.
Speaker 3:It sounds like a great game that I want to get into.
Speaker 1:It's really fun. It's like this painter and you just got to figure out what that like. You have to like figure out what the story is, and the story is conveyed through pieces of like paper that you find in drawers and cabinets and items that you find throughout the game. It tells you this whole bigger picture. There's three different endings and I got the wife ending.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I got the wife ending. So it was just like stressful Because I was like so, like zoned, and then like things would happen and I'm like no, thank you. And it was like either I'd have like a really bad reaction to like the things that are happening or I'd like be looking in the wrong direction and then something will happen behind me and I like turn around and like everything's different and I'm like hmm, yeah. Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, she's been scratching her face a little too much and she's like being really needy right now, trying to get over on some. It's okay, but yeah.
Speaker 3:So in terms of, like fear, right, going back to that predisposition, right. So in your body, right, we are basically sensory creatures that are trying to perceive sensory information. So sites, mouth, that sound, taste, our thoughts, all sensory information. So when we get that and we perceive something, then that information goes through our mind and through different brain structures that will send an electrical signal down your spine and then you're going to get your adrenal glands, which are right above your kidneys, and that, those adrenal glands and adrenaline which gets your heart pumping, your breath is going faster, your tummy feels all weird. That's because your stomach is not digesting anything anymore, because it's sending all of its energy. I'm sending blood to your muscles, oxygen to your muscles, to make sure that you were ready to react whatever is there, and that is part of what's called your sympathetic nervous system, which is basically your body's like emergency system, like, oh shoot, some of that's happening. I need to be ready for something that I don't know what's going to happen yet and I think it's going to be bad.
Speaker 1:I feel like that happens way too often to me. Yeah, just about general things.
Speaker 3:Like.
Speaker 1:I'm always, constantly living on the edge.
Speaker 3:It's awful so you could make an inference that your emergency system is working too hard and overactive versus what the name after that is called the Paris nervous system, which is your body's. The coast is clear system, so that one. So, for example, if you were to go into a crosswalk and you saw a bus coming at you, what would you do?
Speaker 2:Get out of the way.
Speaker 3:Get out of the way Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we try to get them away. I'm not very fast.
Speaker 3:Your body would take over right and you would get out of the way. You didn't have to think about it. Yeah, you would have to think about getting out of the way of us.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, no right, I don't think I would. I think I would either freeze or like I don't know.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Right. So that's exactly the phenomenon. To fight flight freeze, I respond. But so you would get out of the way within a second, you wouldn't even have to think about it. So that creates a spike near anxiety. How long do you think it takes for that anxiety spike to naturally come down back to normal Right, if nothing else happens?
Speaker 1:I'm going to guess like two or three hours.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, yeah, I'd have no idea, yeah.
Speaker 3:So if you were to do nothing and nothing else made you afraid, your body would naturally come back to what is called a space line or like not anxious anymore, in approximately five to 10 minutes. Oh, okay, which is wild, because that two to three hours is usually about the guess that people have, and it's because when we experience anxiety, we usually experience it for a very long time. We experience it for a very long time because we keep thinking about it. When we think about it, it's basically like a restarting a whole cycle. So then you say anxious for a very long time.
Speaker 1:That's fair.
Speaker 2:So it's like a loop. Then it's like you're making yourself anxious over and over again.
Speaker 1:I have a chronic anxiety problem.
Speaker 3:One way that you could help your body is you could do I've been really on this one for the last few weeks is do what's called the starfish position.
Speaker 3:So what that is is you're going to lay down and it's going to feel uncomfortable at first, but you're going to lay down on your back with your palms in the air and you're going to completely not resist gravity. So you're basically going to let your body melt into the floor with your arms like spread out wide, your legs spread out wide. And if you think, like evolutionarily, whenever we get anxious, like if, like a bear came at us, our natural response would be to like close in on itself. Right, so we close in on ourselves and we keep ourselves anxious. So if you break away from it, you open yourself up and then you're constantly just becoming an observer of your thoughts and your emotions. You just let them roll through. You don't fight them, you don't hold them, you don't hang on to them and those emotions will run through you and you are strengthening your coach's clear system. So you will naturally feel significantly more relaxed after about 15 minutes and you are actually teaching your body to relax in a way that maybe it hasn't before.
Speaker 1:I'll have to try that.
Speaker 2:You got to start laying on the floor, Alicia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like in the middle of my job, just like hold on for like two seconds, I just need to start.
Speaker 3:I need 15 minutes Back off.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And generally stressful. But like everything that's stressful that happens at that job seems to happen on my shift.
Speaker 2:I feel like I've done that playing hockey before. Just lay on the ground for a bit. If I fall down or something, don't get up. Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 1:He's a goalie. He's often on the ground.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's fair.
Speaker 1:So one of our other questions was what's your? What's your favorite scary movie or video game or book and or like but?
Speaker 3:Okay, my favorite scary book. I think it's called Long Walk by Stephen King. I think that's right. Don't quote me on that, but it's something with the Long Walk by Stephen King and it's like the story of this guy who's like trying to like win this grand prize and the way that you do it is you're competing against other people and you have to continuously walk and you have to out walk every other person and the race and if you follow four miles per hour on your walk, then you get shot after the third time or like killed after the third time and it's just this continuously like brutal process of like this kid going through this walk and it's very good and like stressful, so I love that one. In terms of movie, there's a Spanish movie called Veronica on Netflix. Have you ever heard of it?
Speaker 1:I haven't actually.
Speaker 3:It's fantastic. I think, like a couple of years ago, it was Netflix's scariest movie and it's fantastic.
Speaker 2:I've seen it on there, but I've never watched it.
Speaker 3:That's fair Fantastic. I am also a sucker for international movies because it's the subtitles and like kind of moving back to the early part. When there's subtitles, I find that I'm more attentive to what's going on. So because I have to read it and get into the movie more, and so when it's a scary movie and I have to read it, I have to pay attention to everything that's going on. It becomes scarier for me, yeah.
Speaker 1:One of our friend podcasts, the Nomads of Fantasy. They just recently watched the witch. Oh like the double V the bitch.
Speaker 3:Okay, no.
Speaker 1:It's the one with Anya Taylor Joy.
Speaker 3:I'm going to write that down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like it's, it's, it's the witch, but instead of a W there's two V's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's cool. I like that.
Speaker 1:And I own the black Phillip which is the main antagonist in the movie. I own Funko Pop for black Phillip. You have to watch the movie with subtitles or headphones.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's a very quiet. Have you seen the haunting? A pale house.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Very, very good Right.
Speaker 1:Very well made.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I was traveling somewhere and I was like on a hotel balcony and I was watching it with my laptop and I didn't want to like, I don't want to get the neighbors, so I had like my big, like headphones on and all of a sudden, like there is like loud noises and it just happens to us that there was like a crack of lightning at the same time. So just here to live in shit I would die.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, okay, so we've asked you a couple of questions. Do you have any questions for us?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so one of the things that is kind of like the advertisers, that you have some like really cool like ghost stories, and I'd love to hear a ghost story.
Speaker 1:Well, yes and no, there are some that we've personally experienced. Listen to our first episode. There's a couple that we've personally experienced, but a lot of them are.
Speaker 2:There are ones people send to us. People send us stories.
Speaker 1:So if you ever have anybody who, like, talks about, like, oh so that this is a spooky thing that happened to me. Just be like, send it to this podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But another thing that we do is the haunted Canada series, which is, in it's, a very loving tribute to the haunted Canada book series.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Where we talk about. We pick a couple of our favorite haunted places or haunted stories from across Canada. We're doing it province by province.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:We obviously did not do some of the most famous ones, because whoever does haunted stories in Canada does these ones. So we're like we're going to pick some lesser well known ones. So one of my favorite ones was definitely the Hennie Valley. Okay, these are world building notes.
Speaker 2:My god.
Speaker 1:I have like so many notes.
Speaker 3:This thing, is so full yeah. That just means that's a lot of rich information.
Speaker 1:Well, I world build on a site called World Anvil. I'm actually intersangtum. Oh, that was a thing that happened. Yeah, I became an intersangtum member on World Anvil, so thank you. It's a very big honor for me to be chosen, considering I've only been there for like a year, on December 4. It looks like you're an all star, then yeah, I was like I applied for it and I was like I'm not going to get it, and then they were like hey, you're an intersangtum member now. And I was like, okay.
Speaker 3:Congratulations, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So one of my absolute favorite ones and this is kind of part of the reason why I wanted to do haunted Canada was the Hennie Valley in national in Northwest Territories. It's Hennie National Park Reserve. It was founded in 1972 by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau related to our current Prime Minister, justin Trudeau. Yes, it is a 11,600 square miles park.
Speaker 3:It's huge.
Speaker 1:Canada is massive.
Speaker 3:Like when I say massive. What is the second biggest country in the world? Shaspirili, Khrushchev.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like we live two hours from the nearest civilization.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like the closest Walmart to me is like two hours away.
Speaker 3:Very convenient.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's extremely convenient, but there's lots of things about this valley. One of the things is that it's most well known as the headless valley, because they have found multiple prospectors in the early 1900s and most recently, I think, in the 80s.
Speaker 2:Was it that recently?
Speaker 1:I don't know, it was recent though, like recent like within, like yeah, technology being invented, kind of thing. But they found people without their heads. Yeah, their head is like totally gone. They can't find it at all, they just find their headless bodies. One of the most famous ones is the Willie and Frank McLeod. They were found in the park at about 1908-ish. One of them was found with his head off. He was clearly sleeping. They just found their skeletons. They didn't find their actual bodies. They found their skeletons. So the one was clearly sleeping and the other one was reaching for a very rusty rifle.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:One of them got off scot-free essentially they just didn't see it coming, and the other one saw whatever killed them.
Speaker 3:Well, I'd rather be the first one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So it's rumored that there was sort of a Shangri-La kind of paradise in the valley, because it's in the tundra right, it's above the Arctic Circle essentially and there was rumored to be like a Shangri-La kind of place where there was like megafauna and when we're talking like megafauna, like moose the size of elephants, yeah, yeah, and like moose are already pretty big and, going back to one of our other episodes, which was talking about the many gods of Mu, giants and little people were rumored to live around there as well.
Speaker 2:And the way the little people are described. I thought they sounded a lot like leprechauns, specifically, yeah. But that was just me. Yeah, so that's what I thought of them.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that people like to say probably killed most of these headless people that they found are called the Naha, which are possibly like big foot-esque creatures. They're also called the Nakahani OK, and there's a whole last book that you can read. It's called the Legends of the Nakahani Valley. It's by Hammerson Peters and he goes into way more detail than I ever could about the Nakahani Valley and it's like it's widely uncharted. You have to have special permissions to go into it. Even now, and even then the only way into it is to be air-dropped into it.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, yeah, and there's lots of rumors of gold and stuff like that there too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And a lot of those people lost their lives looking for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's rumored to be a lot of gold, but there's also rumors from the surrounding aboriginal tribes. So the Inuit peoples, the Dene people, they say that the valley doesn't want the gold to be taken out of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Well, that's so fascinating, like it really sparks this curiosity of like what is there and what is happening. Yeah, obviously something right. Myths are really born out of either partial truths or major truths and just kind of get distorted over time, but they still originate from something.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, it's crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's amazing. There's like they exploring me that would just love to be air-dropped there and just see what's there. Obviously I wouldn't take anything, but I just want to see it.
Speaker 1:I just want to see it too, but also, at the same time, I'm just like yo. What if the Nakahani are a real thing? There's nobody that can come and get me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, lose your head over it.
Speaker 2:They can fly over it in a plane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd like to be like yo. I flew over that one valley in a plane.
Speaker 3:Like Jurassic Park 3 style, where they start flying over very low.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly what's been one of your more favorite Carver stories that we've done.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite stories. My favorite story is still the one that we heard from my chiropractor.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:They went to. He was in Nova Scotia. He never told me what the hotel was called, but they were on a vacation. They booked a hotel and they booked it online and everything. And they showed up for their vacation and there was a.
Speaker 2:So they get into their rooms and they go to bed. And they have to go to bed really early because they got to get up at 4 AM to go biking right and the room over was just the most hardcore party you could ever. You've ever heard in your life. Just people going, nuts going wild loud music, everything, and they were going all night.
Speaker 2:And when they get up in the morning they go to the front desk and they're like hey, there's these people partying in the room next to us all night. Like they're really loud, it was really annoying, and they're just like there's nobody in that room. Well, we heard people partying. So you should go and check that room. And they check the room and no one in there and everything's fine, everything's exactly where it's supposed to be. And so it's like, ok, well, that's weird, and they do their activities for the day, come back the next night and he can't get his closet open. Like his closet door is just closed and he can't pull it open. He's just yanking on it as hard as he can, just it will not open. So they back to the front desk they go ask for, like a maintenance person, hey, my door is jammed. They go back up to his room and when they get into his room the door is just sitting there, just swung open on its own.
Speaker 3:A little unexpected.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little unexpected, yeah. And so the maintenance person, I guess, goes down a little annoyed with him. But they get their closet open, whatever we can get our stuff now. And then I think it's yeah. They go to bed again and then there's another party. This time they get them out and they're partying right now. There's people in this room partying right now and they come up to come open the door but there's nothing in there at all, nothing's going on. And they go to bed.
Speaker 2:The hotel people, again annoyed with them. They leave and this time they can sleep, get up at 4am again, do whatever they do. And they come back and they're in the bar. They come back to the bar and he's talking to the bartender and he's like there's weird stuff that goes on at this hotel, right? And the bartender is like I have no idea what you're talking about. And he's like do you not see the? Do people not complain about all the noise and all this weird stuff happening? And he tells them everything that happened and he's like he looks at them and he's like look, man, we know that weird stuff happens sometimes here, but you can't talk about it, we can't acknowledge it, because once you acknowledge that stuff. Less people are going to come to your hotel and the people who do come are all going to be weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2:That's what he hears and he's like how are you kidding me? And then to cap off this, as he's going back to his room in the night, he overhears someone coming in just as a drop and they're like how much is a room? And they tell him oh, it's like $80, it's $125 a night or something. And this just sends him because he's paying like $300 a night and he'd booked way in advance and all this stuff. After all this that's happened, I'm also getting ripped off. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd be living at that point, yeah no kidding, he was staying at this haunted hotel that no one was allowed to acknowledge. I was like, oh my God, yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you have any spooky experiences?
Speaker 3:I can't say that I have. I know that my mom has and that she's experienced some sort of ghost when she was a little kid, but I wouldn't do it justice to tell the story because I think I would really butcher the events. I think that she had experiences, but I've never really had experience and I've actually like sought out, like trying to like create an experience because I would love to have one, because, look, I'm just weird like that in that sense.
Speaker 1:Because you could just be like hey, this one thing happened. And like at a party, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it'd be a cool party story, but I don't have any party stories in terms of like my own ghost experience that I can like vividly remember. But I do have a question for you guys.
Speaker 1:Of course.
Speaker 3:Do you believe in ghosts?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, I think I do.
Speaker 3:We got 100% and like maybe like 80%, I would say I don't know.
Speaker 2:I've had. So I've had like experiences, but none of them have been like super solid, Like for me experiences.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but easily explainable. But it's always, like you know, I work in a shop with, like wood planks on the ground. Hey, that's the floor, because it's a truck shop and it's a mill, so he just made the floor out of his planks of wood. And every once in a while I'm walking around and I swear I feel like my boss walking behind me, like because you can feel the floor move a little bit right and so the floor will flex and I'll turn around and no one will be there. But I could have sworn. I felt the floor flex. You know stuff like that. So it's not, it's not the best, it's not the, you know, not super conclusive. I don't know if that's just me.
Speaker 1:I remember being on a phone call with a friend and they were home alone and we're on the phone call or whatever, and we were just talking and then they're like okay, I'm going to go upstairs, I'll take you with me, we're going to go get like a drink or something. Right? They go upstairs and I hear I swear to God I heard a child laugh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's creepy.
Speaker 1:And I was like I thought you said that your brother wasn't home and my friend just goes, he's not. And I was like yo, I just heard, like a kid.
Speaker 2:They're like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:And then they're, and then the line goes dead.
Speaker 3:Oh, my ghost was like you're not. You're not showing up Like you're not talking about me.
Speaker 1:My oh man, like my friend, ended up having to get like a priest to cleanse their house. It's like they just the amount of weird shit that happened at their house was just crazy yeah that's the thing you know.
Speaker 2:You want to have a ghost experience. You don't want to be at your own house.
Speaker 3:It has to be so. You don't want to have a ghost. Then you got to move. It's a whole ordeal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like people would think that like ghosts haunt places, but also ghosts can haunt people.
Speaker 2:They can do whatever they want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean they're not.
Speaker 2:Caporial and oftentimes they just haunt objects. So you get rid of the object, you can get rid of the ghost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but sometimes they don't let you get rid of the object.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 3:How would you feel the idea of what's called supernatural operating rules? So what that means is essentially I'm going to encapsulate an entire research article in one sentence the more people believe in something, the more likely they are to see it. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:In one of my worlds, on world Anvil, I kind of implement something similar where there were mortals who were worshiped as gods because of the powerful mutation that gave them like supernatural powers. They were worshiped so much that they basically became immortal. They were revered and feared and worshiped as gods and they eventually became gods essentially.
Speaker 2:Sort of like how the gods in 40k work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that means perfect sense of tracks with group think. That tracks with our understanding of fear in general. It tracks with the idea of what's called a confirmation bias. So everyone loves to be right, everyone likes to be wrong, so your mind is constantly looking for information that confers whatever your belief is. So if you believe in something, your mind is looking automatically and unconsciously for information that supports whatever you believe in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:Also there's this idea that our personality actually has a big correlation to how much a paranormal experience that someone might experience. And there's these two systems called the experiential system and the rational system. Everyone has a mixture of two, and so the experimental experiential system is very fast and automatic and prone to these broad generalizations and emotional complexes. So it's like we like to believe these really big ideas that are really there and like if it's an emotional event, we're all about it, right. So seeing Beyonce saying it's like oh, this is getting my experiential system going Right Because it's big, emotional or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Rational system which is very slow and intentional, right, it takes a while for you to think through. It's correlated with, like our problem solving, very like loosely correlated with, like intelligence, like it's not really a super strong one. So just because you're rational doesn't mean you're smart, right. But so we have these two systems and every single person is like a mix and they're mixed ranges, right, you could be way more experiential or you could be way more rational in terms of your personality, right? So people that are way more experiential and really love and understand the world through these big emotional systems and these broad generalizations that really fall into it are much more prone to have these paranormal experiences.
Speaker 1:Okay, Maybe don't call me out like that.
Speaker 3:Well, hold on.
Speaker 1:That's the same.
Speaker 3:The one who has those experiences is not going to listen to anyone who's using a rational argument, because it's two different systems, right. So that rational argument means nothing to someone who is operating through or seeing the world through that experiential system or that part of their personality is really big, right.
Speaker 3:And so this is all, not to say that like ghosts aren't real and it's really just people's personalities and, like, what we're prone to and how we experience the world is whether or not you're using paranormal activity or not. Who's not to say that your sensory organs are just more acute and are able to understand energy forces that are outside of the perception of those who don't have that sensory abilities? So who's to say that those perceptions are not real?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes total sense. You're definitely more rational than I am.
Speaker 2:Probably yeah.
Speaker 1:Probably. It's like it's either yes or no.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, definitely. That's a very rational comment, not a question. Yeah, I don't know. I've been going through it for too seven years, and about seven years I lost my train of thought.
Speaker 3:Holy thing. So what do you guys think about that idea that maybe ghosts are really just something that some people are able to perceive better than others are?
Speaker 1:I feel like that makes a lot of sense because, like mediums and psychics and stuff and people who can quote unquote, commune with the dead. They I feel like they would tend to be more of the experiential kind of personality like you're talking about. I definitely am Like. I've taken part in a seance and I felt like I was drowning in the person that we were trying to talk to drowned.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Do you have prior information about that drowning.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:No, I think I was there for that. Yeah, we were just trying to figure out what happened to him, because he went missing and yeah, and that one was confusing, because you guys talked to the one person who was supposed to be like that and she said no, he's definitely not here, that definitely didn't happen. But then you and your mom were like he is there, this did happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the weird part about it is like the guy that had drowned, you know he was terrified of water.
Speaker 2:So you guys suspect someone?
Speaker 1:I'm not suspecting or insinuating anything legally.
Speaker 2:Something, but there's, the circumstances are sus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the circumstances are a little suspicious.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But like when we were trying to like figure out what happened, right, like I happened to do, like I happened to take part in a sound, so that was trying to figure that out and like the whole time I like couldn't breathe, like I couldn't, I felt like I was like drowning and like something was like sitting on my chest and I was like standing Like in the middle of a living room.
Speaker 3:That's wild.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like never use Ouija boards Like that's somebody pulls out a Ouija board at a party, I'm like leaving it's like seal it. I'd be like nah, you can, you can get possessed on your own time.
Speaker 2:Thanks, I definitely believe some people might be able to sense things. Others can't. For that I mean there's people who have other super senses. My dad's got the nose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your dad's got the nose and your mom has the ability to measure things with body parts.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that's a talent. That goes with one of my favorite questions, like if you have what's your like actual superpower that you actually have. Like my professor used this example of his wife who, without fail, if they had like an event that they were going to, like a major city which is like packed, and they had an event or a place that they were going to go where like parking is like never there, she could, without fails, find a parking spot right in front of that place that they were going and he would be doing laps constantly. You would never be able to find it when he dropped over. She dropped always find a parking spot.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 3:That was super power.
Speaker 1:I don't know what my human superpower would be, I guess, well, I'm a, I'm an extreme empath, so I often I can read a room fairly well. So we have that. Yeah, what about you was your superpower?
Speaker 3:Oh, I think my superpower would probably be the fact that that's about anything. I'm going to mess it up the first time, but the second time I'm going to do it like pretty, turn it, like whatever it is.
Speaker 1:I'm a person.
Speaker 3:I was just like it's trash. At the same time, I can like nail it.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 3:Just about anything.
Speaker 1:What about you Carve?
Speaker 2:What would be my human superpower? I don't know. I feel like I'm like average in all things.
Speaker 1:Jack of all trades, yeah, none.
Speaker 3:That's a very solid person.
Speaker 2:I don't know, geez, is it that question? I guess I'm like, I guess I'm just more driven to like figure things out than a lot of people are, in a sense Like, if I don't know how to do something, like around my house, you know, like I'll figure out how to do it, like a Google it or whatever it is. That's some of the people don't, do I know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Reminds me of lying. I think it's really like helpful for some people. Where it's this idea of I don't know that I'm not good at it If I haven't tried it, or you mean as time figured out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I suppose you could call that. I don't know if that'd be called a superpower, though it's more like a personality trait.
Speaker 3:He's just saying that's not a superpower.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:Do you guys have any other questions?
Speaker 1:Um.
Speaker 2:I was looking at our questions we have written here. The last one just says fear itself, but I'm not sure what we meant by that.
Speaker 1:I don't either, because I wrote that.
Speaker 2:I don't remember what we meant by that. This is just a really ominous question.
Speaker 1:I'll already kind of talked about like what fear technically is.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So like, like phobias, like what's that? That's another question I've had, like what's the deal with phobias?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question, All right, so kind of going back to that idea of predispositions, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, for example, there's very famous study where the survivors of the Holocaust, they had children Right and so when you imagine the Holocaust like this, horrendous conditions that their bodies are starving, like just this neat, horrendous experience for the survivors Right. So their children were prone to obesity. Alright, Parents starved to death, but the children were prone to obesity. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1:Because they were afraid of starving.
Speaker 3:Their bodies, on a cellular level, were afraid of starving, right, because of the genetic information that their parents went through. Right, their bodies were prepared for a world that was not going to meet their nutritional needs, so they held on to every single calorie, regardless of like what was available to those kids there. And what that really helped prove is this idea of like generational patterns and how the stressors in people's lives affects generations that come afterwards, right. So when you think of phobias, there are a lot of phobias that are more common, right. There's phobias of heights, there's phobias of deep water, there's phobias of snakes and spiders and all sorts of things that just historically have hurt or scared people in our ancestry.
Speaker 3:Right. So we're predisposed to be more afraid of a spider than we are, to, say, a light bulb, Right, there's not a very common phobia of light bulbs. So because of that predisposition, there is an innate fear that is already associated with something. The way that we kind of develop a phobia is everyone's favorite tactic of avoidance, right. So let's say you're really afraid to go outside or have your house. Right, we're going to talk about what's called agoraphobia.
Speaker 3:So the fear of living in your house. Right. So the reason that that happens let's say you have an awful experience at, like, an airport and you get stuck in a place far away from home and it scares the heck out of you. Right. So your nervous system is like a memory card, so it remembers that and it creates what's called a neural pathway in your brain that basically says I'm away from home, that's dangerous. Right. So over time, like I said, you start getting into car accidents away from home in addition. So now your brain is saying look, there's more information that this is bad, so get reinforced. And then you decide okay, well, I'm going to go out for lunch. Well, actually I'm going to cancel, so I'm not going to stay home today.
Speaker 3:Right, unconsciously, the fear of leaving the house just got reinforced, even though you didn't intend or one tab happened, okay. So the cycle of information being reinforced in your mind is how phobia is kind of developed. So when you avoid something that you're afraid of, all of a sudden that fear becomes a little bit bigger and the more that you avoid it and avoid it and avoid it, it basically reinforces that fear to get bigger and bigger and bigger. All of a sudden I can't leave my house because I'm afraid I'm going to die, right. So phobia is really developed from having a predisposition to be afraid of something and then having that fear being reinforced through various different ways, whether it's a really scary experience, or you think about it and it's like, ooh, that's scary and you try and push it away. So you're kind of avoiding it mentally. So that avoidance is a big key on how it develops, which means if you want to get rid of your fear the cliche you got to face your fear, exposure therapy is the number one therapy for phobias in general.
Speaker 2:Means you got to start driving on the road.
Speaker 1:No. The actual road, no, and then you won't be afraid of anything.
Speaker 3:No, you have to calm your body down and teach it that it is in fact okay to drive.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I was going to be like. I guess that means I got a place of Nautica now.
Speaker 2:Whatever works.
Speaker 1:I have phasalophobia. It's so scary, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Which is funny because I love the ocean but, like I was surfing from time to time not very often anymore, but I used to and my brother and I would be out in the ocean until we got the fear and then we would be like, oh, we're going back, we're getting out of the water. There's actually is the evidence that whenever you get like the fear in the ocean that there's actually a high likelihood that there's a shark within 50 to 100 feet of you because it's swimming in your body is actually sensing that information without even looking right. The same way I cover when you're talking about how you could feel like people behind you and you have a need system to be able to even sense things that you're not seeing because of changes in like air pressure and wind or the hairs on your back being like stimulated in some way. Your body is an amazing ability to sense and perceive everything around you at all times.
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 3:Humans are amazing creatures.
Speaker 1:I had to get over my fear of like going into the water in Ark Because my friends decided to build their base on an island and I don't have a dinosaur mount, so I had to swim all the way across and I was like there are scary things in that game though, so I guess it makes sense. I don't know if you know what Ark is.
Speaker 3:I don't.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's, it's so. I've been playing Ark Survival Ascended recently. It is a game where you wake up on otherwise uninhabited by humans island full of dinosaurs.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like some pretty big, scary dinosaurs. It's such a good game. It's like a survival, like a survival type of game 11.
Speaker 3:RPG type style like open world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's open world.
Speaker 3:Very cool.
Speaker 1:It's awesome, my friends and I. I've spent over 300 hours on the first game and now the second game. Yeah, I'm a little obsessed. Well, so we've been recording for almost an hour. If that's a very good amount of time, yes, it is, I think so.
Speaker 1:I think the conversation was great. I learned so much. So if you don't have any more questions for us, I think we're going to sign off there. Remember, you can find nope, not that kind of doctor on Twitter at Not that kind of doctor, okay. Okay, you can. You're on Spotify.
Speaker 3:Yeah, any anywhere that you can get podcasts where we're on it.
Speaker 1:Awesome, like yourself. Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I just like great reviews. Subscribe, help us grow the show. We're still fairly new, so slowly growing, slowly but surely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're. We're pretty small in comparison to some of the podcasts we're friends with.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you can find us on Twitter At drinks, in things, and you can also find us on Instagram threads. You name it, I'm on it.
Speaker 2:I'm on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we also have a stream, don't forget about that. You can be. Come watch us play video games. We're playing the Witcher three and Metroid. We're going to the next time we're streaming. We're going to be playing Metroid Prime remastered.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Hopefully finishing that up and then we can move on. Yes, and then we can do the next time we're streaming, but other than that, I think that's it for us.
Speaker 2:Thank you For coming on the show.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate being our first guest ever.
Speaker 2:Second First guest.
Speaker 1:That's not somebody. Oh, not somebody we know in real life, I should say oh God, you're the first podcast.
Speaker 3:Other podcasts You're the very first podcast.
Speaker 1:And we're going to be doing a little bit of a video game and we're going to be doing a little bit of a video game. Our last guest, of course, was Cody. We talked about music, because Cody such a big music nerd.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:That was it to our conversation, all right, so We'll talk to you guys. Sometimes you maybe